How to Think About Playing Granary*
I feel that scouts have much less control in Granary, as compared to say Badlands. The flow of the map is very staggered, with teams holding in particular areas before they are ready to push through narrow chokes. When these pushes occur it is naturally the heavy classes that go first through the narrow entranceways, with their medic behind them. Because of the nature of this map being as it is, I feel it causes lots of scouts to feel though they play awkwardly on it.
Tag along behind the heavy classes as they move from CP3 to CP4, or to push onto CP5. All the while looking out for them with thoughts such as: 'They are pushing on the right with uber, theres not much I can do, but I can watch their back to make sure no scouts come behind.' Or perhaps: 'they are pushing on the right, and the left is totally open; I should go and check the left to make sure we don't get flanked, making sure to play defnensive so to stay alive' (see screenshot for pushing CP4).
I
think a lot of scouts are lost on granary for what to do, and part of
this problem is thinking they need to be doing something when actually there
is nothing valuable they can do. Watch this clip of (5:20 – 6:20) of Stefan. This is a perfect example
of what I have been discussing. Sometimes the best choice is to do
nothing. Don't constantly peek. What do you expect to see? A freaking
alien invasion? There are six players out there in some combination
of the nine classes of TF2: rest in peace in this knowledge (no
aliens).
This example illustrates my post 'Sometimes You're Useless', which could be crudely summed up as stay alive while you're useless, and good oppertunities will open themselves to you. This is exactly what happens in that clip. Notice how much time he spends not doing anything. When I saw this play here for the first time it made me so happy, I need to see more scouts chilling out and taking stock of the game and less of the hyperactive non stop running about.
Middle Point
A general point to remember for granary mid point
is that there is a lot of movement potential to be taken advantage
of. The area is very multi-layered, with ledges on the crates and the
ramps at the back etc. As a scout these can be difficult to use
effectively, but when utilised properly they can be used to great effect.
Defensive Top
The first way I'm going to suggest to
approach the middle point is to play defensive top. Push up to the
doorway which leads to your ramp on mid. Be careful when moving
through the opening as many demomen will be there early and place a
sticky anticipating your arrival.
Often it is best to wait a second to see if he will do this. Once up on the ramp stay there; don't move on to the crates yet. Wait for some of the initial spam which is inevitably thrown about right at the start, and watch to see what the enemy players are doing. Then, at the appropriate moment, react to what you see. It should also be noted you are in a good position to call any important information to your team.
So, what kind of things might you see and then how would you react to them? It's a difficult task to try and outline and describe this as every mid point fight will be unique. I will do my best to describe some general scenarios you may encounter and suggest some viable decisions to make against them.
Often it is best to wait a second to see if he will do this. Once up on the ramp stay there; don't move on to the crates yet. Wait for some of the initial spam which is inevitably thrown about right at the start, and watch to see what the enemy players are doing. Then, at the appropriate moment, react to what you see. It should also be noted you are in a good position to call any important information to your team.
So, what kind of things might you see and then how would you react to them? It's a difficult task to try and outline and describe this as every mid point fight will be unique. I will do my best to describe some general scenarios you may encounter and suggest some viable decisions to make against them.
One scenario you may encounter is a scout pushing hard right side (left from his perspective) and runs past the garage door, pressuring the demo or whoever is by the health pack. Your first reaction will obviously be to call it; then whether or not you decide to drop down will have to be somewhat situational. Your presence and shots from above may be enough to keep him back and prevent him from going to aggressive on your demo or whoever is there. If not, and he is set on rushing hard on some suicide mission, then you might want to drop down. Alternate agressive stances by the enemy scout(s) could be through the crates or straight across the point.
Dropping down may seem like a natural decision, but I don't think it is always the best option, it may allow soldiers up on the crates to fire rockets down on you for example. A better decision might be to use that moment, where at least one enemy player is clearly occupied doing other things, to create some pressure and distraction of your own in any gaps you may see.
For example the second you drop down a soldier may jump up to your teams left crate. If you are on the floor there you are vulnerable and not very helpful. If you stay up then you can start attacking the Soldier, often he will be intent on going for your Medic, giving you time to get a free meat shot and take him down as fast as possible.
If one scout is top what about the other guy?
It is fine to play both scouts top at the start. However, you don't want two scouts being overly defensive. If there are two of you up then decide which one of you will drop down more easily. If a scout does decide to rush across the point, in this scenario one if you will want to drop toward him.
One top one bottom right
Another option is to play the other scout defensive bottom right. This has the advantage of freeing the scout who plays up top. If both of you are up top then, as I already said, one of you should be designated to be the one to drop and deal with scouts. Playing the other scout bottom has the advantage of one scout beintg natually in position.
Playing bottom right you want to peek along the right side as soon as possible, be very careful as often one scout will come along here and you will be in a 1v1 situation. If this happens do not try and 1v1 unless you get a 100+ damage meatshot almost instantly and have a chance to finish him very quickly. The reason you dont want to stay in 1v1 is that the soldiers will likely be arriving any second.
Peeking right will allow you to see if a scout is coming that way, he may be attempting to push right into you, or go between the gap in the crates. If he tries to push into you then fall back into your garage and play very defensively from in there. If he goes between the crates don't chase him, back up and move left toward the point to deal with him there.
The big danger playing bottom right is the soldier that will likely go on the crate just above you. So long as there is a soldier there you are very locked in position. Your presence in the garage should still prevent any players from running along that right hand side toward your team, so you still retain limited usefulness. You want to get out as soon as it is safe to do so, however, and start doing some damage and gaining presence/position.
To Recap
So unless a big opportunity presents
itself for you to go aggressive (hard call to make), you don't want
to be pushing but waiting for opportunities to present themselves and
blocking up any chinks in your own teams positioning. If you're going
up top there are plenty of plays for your other scout. Both of you
can go up top, this is perfectly viable though you need to be careful
that you aren't too passive: you can sit back but at least one of you
is going to need to get forward, going on the front left crate for
example.
One last option I will suggest is for the other scout
is to go aggressive on the enemy demo. He needs to be going bottom (not top ramp) for this to work. There
is a brief moment at the start of the round where the demo arrives
before the soldiers and medic, getting one or two good shots on him
to make him low can be decisive in winning a mid point, preventing demo aggression and allowing your heavies to take positions. Be careful of
the enemy scouts who will try to defend their demo, and as always be careful of
enemy scouts rushing your own demo.
Pushing the Left
A big danger here
is if the heavies decide to push this way (right from their perspective), in which
case you're in a precarious position. As long as you're quick you
should be able to spot this in time to back off, and then perhaps go
between the gap in the crates and on to the point. The disadvantage
of being on the point is that it leaves you very exposed.
It has the advantage however of being very positionally strong if you
can avoid damage, putting you in a place to be able to dish damage to
anyone who wants to come close.
Playing on the left can also be done by going straight on point first and then moving left as was played in the short clip by Bybben.
Playing on the left can also be done by going straight on point first and then moving left as was played in the short clip by Bybben.
Fourth (cp4)
Pushing onto the fourth point once you have won mid is one of these scenarios where you aren't very useful a lot of the time. This is where I see many scouts getting impatient or thinking they have to be doing something active, like pushing into garage on the left and getting picked off when a soldier suddenly appears or whatever.
If you're standing still, you may not be active but you are still doing something. I am going to suggest when pushing second one scout stays back here [screenshot below], perhaps sitting on this roof, but just in this area is fine.
What you are doing here is a number of things all illustrated in the screenshot. In this position you are available to watch the drop down. Some times, when your heavies are on the point pushing in, a soldier/scout will come out of the garage and go through Z. If you are watching for this, don't go to stop it but communicate it to your team. Trust me, so many times I have done this and saved my team from being surprised. Usually if your team get the call in time they can easily shut down and kill the player in Z before they have a chance to do anything.
Another dangerous aspect for your heavies pushing in is, rather than going through Z, players might just come right around and push in the door (Red arrow) behind your heavies. If they are preoccupied with what is going on in the point and not checking behind them, a single scout behind can be devastating. Being in the position here you can stop this from happening.
If you have one of your scouts here, the other can mix it up. One possibility is to play the garage on the left. The key here is to go in at the right moment. If your heavies start to make progress on the point, enemy players defending the garage may fall back to help defend the point. This is a perfect opportunity to rush in, whenever the opponent is trying to deal with one threat they often have to drop another task (i.e. defending garage). Then they will be sandwiched between your heavies coming on the point and you coming in behind through garage.
Don't feel like you need to rush the garage part. If you are playing shots off a scout in the garage but not doing much, your presence there is still keeping that player occupied and allowing your heavies to not be overwhelmed on the point.
If you are defending the point, you simply want to be using the same knowledge in reverse. Prevent scouts and enemy players from coming in behind in the garage, and fall back and communicate to your team if they push in that way. Now and then you can play risky and go for either a back cap, or for some frags, by exiting through the drop down (green). If the enemy team is pushing the point and garage isn't being attacked, then you can push out and worry them from behind to take some pressure away from the point.
Important note: You don't have to follow these tactics to the letter. Feel free to be crazy, creative and insane. Rules are made to be broken, but I believe before you can break rules and be creative you will benefit from having firm ground from which to base new ideas on.
(*A note: I would like to have put more effort into this post and refined it more. I just don't have time for this game any more. I loved it with my heart and soul. So, rather than leaving this post unpublished I thought there maybe was at least some useful information in it...)
Pushing onto the fourth point once you have won mid is one of these scenarios where you aren't very useful a lot of the time. This is where I see many scouts getting impatient or thinking they have to be doing something active, like pushing into garage on the left and getting picked off when a soldier suddenly appears or whatever.
If you're standing still, you may not be active but you are still doing something. I am going to suggest when pushing second one scout stays back here [screenshot below], perhaps sitting on this roof, but just in this area is fine.
Another dangerous aspect for your heavies pushing in is, rather than going through Z, players might just come right around and push in the door (Red arrow) behind your heavies. If they are preoccupied with what is going on in the point and not checking behind them, a single scout behind can be devastating. Being in the position here you can stop this from happening.
If you have one of your scouts here, the other can mix it up. One possibility is to play the garage on the left. The key here is to go in at the right moment. If your heavies start to make progress on the point, enemy players defending the garage may fall back to help defend the point. This is a perfect opportunity to rush in, whenever the opponent is trying to deal with one threat they often have to drop another task (i.e. defending garage). Then they will be sandwiched between your heavies coming on the point and you coming in behind through garage.
Don't feel like you need to rush the garage part. If you are playing shots off a scout in the garage but not doing much, your presence there is still keeping that player occupied and allowing your heavies to not be overwhelmed on the point.
If you are defending the point, you simply want to be using the same knowledge in reverse. Prevent scouts and enemy players from coming in behind in the garage, and fall back and communicate to your team if they push in that way. Now and then you can play risky and go for either a back cap, or for some frags, by exiting through the drop down (green). If the enemy team is pushing the point and garage isn't being attacked, then you can push out and worry them from behind to take some pressure away from the point.
Important note: You don't have to follow these tactics to the letter. Feel free to be crazy, creative and insane. Rules are made to be broken, but I believe before you can break rules and be creative you will benefit from having firm ground from which to base new ideas on.
(*A note: I would like to have put more effort into this post and refined it more. I just don't have time for this game any more. I loved it with my heart and soul. So, rather than leaving this post unpublished I thought there maybe was at least some useful information in it...)
